Posted on July 18th, 2019
Below is a complete transcript of this video.
Tommy:
So, we’ve covered sexual harassment and what restaurants should do to-
John:
And regular harassment.
Tommy:
And yeah, regular harassment.
John:
[inaudible 00:00:10] and all of that. Oh, here’s a big one that’s happening all over, retaliation. So, there’s a lot of fraudulent workers’ comp claims and then these guys know the game. Then they follow worker’s comp claim, they come back and they become these awful employees and then you fire them and then they ensue for retaliation. I’m starting to see that become a lot more common.
There’s a lot of professional litigants out there that know this stuff. When you research their background you see that they’ve done this four or five, six times, you know, and so there’s a lot of guys out there doing that.
So, it’s really important, even for low end jobs, that you really know who you’re hiring. You know, a lot of times people just hire, “Hey, that’s the guy that’s available. Let’s take them without looking and seeing what’s really going on there.”
Tommy:
What can employers do to look into someone’s back round, is that public record?
John:
Well, I think you research. There’s a thing called “Ban the Box”, in La. So, you can’t do the background check until after you’ve decided you’re going to hire them, but then you can do the background check and then when you do the background check, then you can say, “Hey, I’m not hiring you for these reasons.”, and it becomes a problem of if it’s for a criminal reason.
I mean, I don’t know if you want me to go into Ban the Box with you, but I can, but the gist of it is that you’d have to give them reasons why and if it’s like, “Hey, you’ve got all these DUIs and this is a driving job. Right? That’s the reason.”,
And then they have, I think it’s seven days or something. I can’t remember off the top of my head to respond to that and then you have to respond one more time if you’re not going to hire them.
The problem with that is that you’re not allowed to hire anyone else until you’ve gone through this whole process.
So, this is like a two week process and I needed to hire someone two weeks ago. So, that’s how ridiculous this law is. But I understand also that there’s a need to bring people back into society and give them, you know, redemption and all of these different things because if you if they’re not able to get employed, they’re just going to go back to crime.
Right? So, what’s the, how does that help society? My problem with Ban the Box is not that it helps people get back into society, my problem with Ban the Box is that the government has now put it on entrepreneurs to solve their problem for them.
Why are we paying you? You’re supposed to be solving the problems, right? Hire them in government positions.
That’s the, you know, it’s craziness. So, that’s really my problem with Ban the Box. Not that there’s a thing called Ban the Box. I understand that it benefits society and brings people back, especially people with low level drug offenses.
You know, so many people who have been incarcerated for marijuana use, which is insane to me. Right? Sure, of course, bring those people back, but not on the backs of entrepreneurs, not at the expense of entrepreneurs.
You know, these are the people hiring, these are the ones paying the taxes, these are the ones, you know what I mean? So, what is that saying, “Cutting off your nose to spite your faces.”, that’s exactly what it is. But you know, these politicians, they don’t own businesses.
They’ve never had to employ anybody. You know, they’re career politicians. They don’t understand business, you know, so what can a business owner do when they’re going through the interview process and they find out that one of their candidates is a lifelong, you know, has gone back and made claims on four of his past five employers for something that’s ridiculous.
Yeah. Well, you’re not supposed to deny someone employment based on a right that they have. They have the right to file workers’ comp, they have the right to file lawsuits.
That’s the rub here, right? So, basically the government’s asking you to, you know, bring a fox into the henhouse.
Right? So, hopefully there’s another reason not to hire them, you know, maybe there’s a more qualified person, I don’t know. You’re not even supposed to ask about worker’s comp and if they filed former lawsuits or whatever. So, I think background checks are, it’s easy now, right?
You have your basic background check, right? But then you also have all the information they give you. It doesn’t take much to look on their social media and see what this person’s life is, right. I
f it’s, if it’s the, the father of four, that’s, you know, picnicking with his children on weekends and going to baptisms or whatever, that’s quite a bit different than the guy on Instagram doing who knows what at what nightclub or whatever.
You know what I mean? And I’m not saying that guys that go to nightclubs shouldn’t be hired. I’m saying maybe there’s certain occupations that are okay for some people and not okay for other people, right, or certain risks that you want or certain environment that you want.
Like for example, at our law firm we’re a very open environment, right? It’s what we want is people that get along with each other and do good work. You know, what we don’t want is uptight people or people that are not going to get along with others because it’s a very cooperative environment and it has to be because every case, five, six people have their hand in it, it’s not just one lawyer doing one job, you know?
And so it, I hire for fit and not for, for example, whether you went to Harvard or USC, that doesn’t matter to me. You know, the Harvard guy to me isn’t any better than the USC guy.
It’s all the same work. If you pass the bar, there isn’t anything we’re doing here that’s rocket science, right? You can learn anything.
So, then it’s just a matter of fit. Do you fit within our environment or don’t you? That’s the way I hire and so far, I mean I’ve had some bad ones but not terrible ones.
Tommy:
I know that you’re pressed for time. Quickly, Daily minimum pay, is that an issue that comes a lot?
John:
Daily minimum pay?
Tommy:
Yeah.
John:
Well, there’s minimum wage, I’m not sure if that’s what you’re talking about.
Tommy:
It’s a, the daily minimum pay, let’s say you scheduled someone for eight hours and you let them go home at one hour into their shift type of thing?
John:
No, I mean I don’t see lawsuits for anything like that. I mean it’s how they’re paid, right? If there’s a salary employee that’s different than a, is this is a Canadian thing because these are not lawsuits we get in California for that.
So, for example, if somebody is hourly and they worked an hour and then they said, “Hey, I’ve got to take care of something, I’ve got an errand to run.”, or, “I have an emergency.”, or whatever, yeah, I mean unless it falls under the sick leave law, which we have here, right, in LA it’s six days of paid sick leave, right? So, if that’s used, “Hey, I don’t feel good.”, then yeah, you still pay them for that day.
Right? But if it’s not within the sick leave law and you pay them for the hours that they work, unless they’re salaried or something like that.
Tommy:
You know, I know that there’s a sexual harassment training that’s mandatory that’s coming up. Can you touch base a little bit about this new law and also what you guys are planning on doing to support businesses?
Well, the new law just says by January 20th there are minimum standards for sexual harassment training and it’s different from regular employees versus supervisors.
And what we’re doing is we’re probably going to do something online, just offer it online. I don’t even think we’ll charge for it, but there are others online that offer it too.
So, and then I think there are people that also show up and do the sexual harassment training in person. I’m not sure if we’re going to do that yet.
We’re not quite sure what product we’ll offer for that, but we’ll offer something at some point.
Tommy:
Okay. Well, we’ll definitely keep our audience posted on what direction you guys decide.
John:
Great.
Tommy:
You know, it seems to me like having a great lawyer to probably one of the most important relationships a business owner should have. Any advice on what to look for when searching for employment, you know, legal counsel?
John:
Yeah. There are different personality types, right? So, there are aggressive people, there are passive people, there’s, there’s whatever there is, right?
So I think you should first find someone that knows specifically what you need. It’s no different than a doctor, right? So you might have a generalist and there are generalists out there, right? And then you have people that are specific.
So, there’s lots of times I see a generalist that doesn’t understand how weird the labor laws are in California, so they think it’s more common sense law that we learned in law school, but it’s not that. Just like I’m sure securities law are not, you know, what we learned in law school, right?
And I’m not a specialist in securities law, so I would never try to answer questions or try to do anything like that.
So, I think that you find someone very specific to what your problem is and then I’m sure out of that pool of people, you first find someone that fits your budget but also somebody that fits your style and that you get along with. I have clients that prefer just never to hear anything unless there’s a problem and then I have clients that want, you know, updates weekly.
Right. So, it just depends on what it is that you want.
Tommy:
You know, what are some key takeaways employers should do right now to protect themselves from potential claims?
John:
Okay. So, first of all, document everything, right? And I think you should have some sort of procedure to document everything cause that’s what’s going to save you, even if it’s just emails back and forth between management, “Hey, Robert is late every day. Has Anybody noticed? Yes, let’s have a discussion with him about that.” Even if it’s as simple as just CYA emails, right? Document everything.
Second. You know, almost every time I have deposed somebody what’s come out and unless it’s a serial litigant where they’re doing this on purpose, what’s come out is they’re suing because they’re unhappy about something else and they justify it with this unhappiness.
And the two things that I hear is that either it was a really bad supervisor or owner just treats people badly and whatever it is isn’t good to people, is unreasonable, whatever it is, right?
Those people get sued quite a bit. The second one that gets sued quite a bit is the guy that’s too nice. Right? And what that is, is they give people all of these extra benefits they’re not required to give like, “Oh yeah, I give out loans to my employees.
Yeah. Yeah. I let them take a cigarette break whenever they want.”, and then, because there’s no structure order, at some point when the business requires there to be structure and order or you can’t give all these benefits anymore, you know what, “I can’t give loans, personal loans anymore because people don’t pay me back.”,
Whatever it is, right?
Once you take away those things, then people get upset about that. And so those are always the two things I hear when it’s not a serial litigant.
Tommy:
Okay, got it. So really, you know, businesses, you should have rules in place that are within, you know, within the law and, and make sure that there’s order there.
John:
Well, treat people the way you would want to be treated, the golden rule, right? And then second is no charity in your business. Have charity elsewhere. Run your business like a business. It’s for profit, right?
Tommy:
Yeah.
John:
If you’re going to do charity, give to the church, give to the homeless, give, give to whoever you’re giving, right?
Be kind to your employees, treat them the way you would want to be treated if you were an employee, but no charity.
Charity creates more problems than you think it does. I Hear a hundred times, “I was so nice to that guy. I did so much for this person.”, yes, don’t do that.
It’s very counterintuitive, you know?
Tommy:
Yeah. That’s really good. That’s really good to hear. So, where can people find you? Where can people, you know, if they’re looking for you, where can they find you online? Where, where do you, where are you guys in LA?
John:
Well, we’re in downtown Los Angeles and the website is Defendmybiz.com and they can find us at Defendmybiz.com/Push
Tommy:
Awesome.
We’re doing things together now.
Tommy:
Well, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day. I know that you’re really busy to answer some of the questions that our listeners have.
Yeah, no problem at all Tommy. It was good meeting you face to face finally.
Tommy:
Yeah, definitely.
